Kid Shows

There was no television that didn't really exist to a less than a hundred thousand television sets.

They shouldn't lie. Both of them and borrow them to learn to lawns.

"You're gonna have a teddy teddy, can't believe it, time to infeany."

"I mean, that's the teddy time, seamy, not you."

"Can I just have a bottle of jack with that BRA?"

"I think that's good, that's what the vessel we're gonna have in the old found here."

"I'd like to say that I am a devoted frog. I am not afraid of commitment. I'm just a little just not sure I'm thrilled about marrying a pig."

"We did as many drugs as everybody thought we did. We'd be dead today. You cannot produce these shows and create the stone. The Beatles is that time and pop this up. They used to ask for the tapes to see the tapes and ones that the Beatles were rich with what they were fans."

"Well, we're overdo for a new theme machine, so let's get on with it. I am Judge Curry.

I'm getting close to the end of season one, Varsho. This time around we tackle kid shows. I wasn't sure there was enough there for a full podcast, but I found it was quite to the contrary.

No matter the era and which you were raised, you had your shows. Whether it was tell it to a slam chop, Barney or Fairly Ag parents, some of those were our escapes, our friends and our companions. The US alone boasts over 10,000 kids shows and more than 50,000 around the world.

As we dig into some of the people and in some case puppets behind the shows that I've been able to visit with will start with one of the earliest. That has to be Bob Keeshan, a captain Kangaroo.

It was before my time prior to the captain setting sail with his own show, he was a character on Howdy Doody with Buffalo Bob Smith. The captain learned a thing or two from Bob about being best if he didn't do his kid show in front of the children.

Bob once explained. It was a Halloween night and we had the whole set decorated with live pumpkins and cats and witches and whatever.

We always had no time to move at the end of the show. We turned on the lights to cool the studio. I was narrating the film and the cameraman were watching whatever.

I'm telling you about the movie about this fellow who was asleep all the time and a nickname to rip their window. I'm telling kids about old rip and a little kid came out of the gallery and talked to my parents. I guess he wants to. He says, "Puffle Bob, I got a tinkle."

Obviously, I can't go tinkling with the kid. I pointed to one of our cameraman thinking the kid would go over to a tinkle partner. In the same direction that I was pointing was our puppet stage and on the floor in front was a tremendous, lighted pumpkin.

I guess the little kids thought I was pointing toward the pumpkin because he proceeded to go over and put out the candle.

Dayton Allen, one of our puppeteers had enough composure to come down and do the posing narration on the film and say goodbye to the kids.

The letters and the phone calls we got were terrific. We said, "We got to answer these people. What do we do?" We sent to them the following poem.

We said, "So many of you asked what happened on the night of Halloween when everyone was hysterical and before Bob had to leave the scene."

It was during an old time movie about a man named Rip Ben Winkle when a four-year-old boy from the gallery told Bob that he had a tinkle.

Bob said, "Well, Bob couldn't take him so he pointed to someone who could but the little kid didn't follow directions. He just walked to him. I'm going to install it."

Because our little friend had great amony never spilled a drop. That was Buffalo Bob from Howdy Dutie. Bob Keeshin, who was Claire Bell the clown on that show leader, went on to host one of the longest running kids chosen US history.

The name Captain Kangaroo came from the long pockets on the jacket that the captain used to wear. The show wasn't really based on anything as TV was well pretty new.

And kids were the last ones that advertisers were thinking about.

There was no television that it didn't really exist to a less than a hundred thousand television sets. They had wide, both of them and bars and full of loans. They were very few in living room.

It was technically the air, but they couldn't get it off the ground because there were no advertisers obviously.

Because there was no audience. You have to get into a different state of mind when you're doing a kid show?

Well, I don't think so. I think it has a lot to do with the young being you were to begin with. And if you're a decent caring young being you do decent caring programming.

But we didn't have children in the studio. And that's one of the other. That's also getting from Howdy Dutie. I would look at it. If I was doing Claire Bell, I would be doing something and the kids would be reacting beautifully to it.

And laughing. And I would look at the monitor. And the director had chosen shots of the kids laughing rather than what they were laughing at, which was what I was doing.

So I was saying to myself, well, you know, there are 50 kids here in the beginning of the area, but millions at home.

And they've got to be upset because they're not seeing what the kids are laughing about.

So I always know that that was a potential for those kids in the audience in the studio to get in the way of the relationship with the audience at home, which was quite far more important than those that were in the studio.

So that's where we never had children on the show.

And how many of the jackets do you still have?

I think I didn't. I guess I don't know. I would read on the answer to that.

Do you know Fred Rogers, very well, Fred and I have very close.

I think there would be a camaraderie.

Yes, there is.

Among the adolescent entertainer.

Fred and I are very close. We do consult a lot on the children and the problems with children and families.

Today we're both, we're both fellows of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

We work together with the Academy on many of these challenges.

And we have a nice custom. Every new year is morning. The telephone rings.

About nine or ten in the morning. And it's Fred and I have been doing this for years.

- I mean, I just don't want to let you know that.

He really talks exactly as he does on television.

That's his personality and I accept that.

That's fine, man.

But he just talked down to me.

- It's kids' shows this time on the theme machine.

I'm John Carney and the good captain and I were talking about Fred Rogers.

And as you can imagine, his name will come up a few times on this episode.

Sadly, I never had the chance to chat with Fred McPhilly Rogers.

Yes, McPhilly was his middle name.

And outside of Nick Cannon, I can't think of many people who helped raise more children,

including me.

Fred passed in 2003, but his life has been chronicle several times.

A great documentary called Won't You Be My Neighbor.

In a film in 2019 with Tom Hanks called a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

Pop culture writer Gavin Edwards wrote a book a couple years ago.

He wrote a book a couple years back called "Chimus and Wonder."

Why Mr. Rogers matters now more than ever.

And he talked about who Fred was.

He was in fact so authentically the person that you saw on TV.

He was that kind. He was that giving.

A lot of what I write about in the book is the way you sort of touch other people,

especially when he figured about his children.

And if he was out at a restaurant and he saw a kid standing awkwardly in the corner,

he would get up and go over and get down on one knee.

Look at that kid and have a conversation with them.

And so when you're talking about, like for these myths and stories,

Mr. Rogers, I think spring out of that makes it uncomfortable.

It's hard for us to process that much sincerity.

Because like sincerity is not the coin of the realm.

We live in a sort of sarcastic, ironic world.

And because a lot of people take it as an implicit criticism of it.

It's easy to do this. Why aren't you?

But we've been dealt a fair amount of disappointment about people that we thought were our heroes.

I mean, look at Bill Cosby, for example.

We were all in Hope, Pine and Sinker and then all of a sudden, hey, check out this dark side.

And maybe it's just me because I'm dower in nature.

But I've just kind of waited, even though I was raised on a steady diet,

Mr. Rogers, kind of waiting for the other shoe to fall that it's going to come out.

He was in to devil worship.

He was just like the version of himself on TV with like he took off his glasses and put on contact lenses.

And then you have like, he had to put on some makeup.

But I was in that sort of like he behaved on camera, like pretty much the way he did off camera.

Do my questions about anything nefarious about him largely dissipated when I read that that cardigan sweater that he's so infamous for and I think it's in this Smithsonian was actually needed by his mother.

Yes, I love that too.

He did like a mother like every year like at Christmas time with him down like 12 letters to like the 12 people like him, the family and her closest friends and then say, okay, what kind of sweater do you want next year?

Like, Freddie, I know you want one of the ones that like, zip up the front.

So he had like a closet full of sweaters that she had made for him over his life.

And so whenever like a you coming on the show, he's putting on the symbol of the spread of his love and he's putting on the symbol of how his mother like sort of like gave her time trying to do things for other people like the, you know, she's like,

that would volunteer at hospitals.

She would make damages for soldiers

during the war.

And so it's like, it was always this like very personal reminder,

you know, like where he came from.

- A lot of different kids shows came down the pie,

Gizuma, electric company, sesuagestrief,

and all of those had a lot to do with our upbringing

and what shaped us.

But I think when you stack them all up next to each other,

one of the big differences was,

"In Mr. Rogers' neighborhood, not only was he,

"the neighborhood, all the puppets, the voices,

"demusing, the writing, the hosting."

But he touched on things that weren't meant,

you know, maybe not taboo, but certainly weren't talked about,

single-parenting.

There was a special when Robert Kennedy was assassinated,

that death bullying things that the other shows were just like,

"No, we're just gonna have fun."

And let's go play ball.

- You were so in tune with the kids of emotional growth and development.

And the other things I'm a show like, "Hey, let's go visit the cramps, that's great."

But the most important thing for him was finding ways to help kids

with, you know, sort of like, giving them like the tools

and the emotional fortitude that they would be able to handle, you know,

certain maybe it divorced in their own family,

or even just like the divorce of a friend, like,

on the playground at school.

And so, you know, even though he had, anyway,

if I'd have a shelf of life, he made a point of, you know,

sort of like reaching out beyond his own experience,

you know, you know, you could help those kids.

Who the shows history made sure that it was an interracial neighborhood,

Mandy Cast, Franco Accomand said they police officer,

he wanted to make sure that sort of like, yeah, did it,

African American actor, like, who's in a position of like, other authority.

Who was a police officer who also sang.

And then, you know, sort of, there was this unhappy drum beat, the news.

You know, sort of like, you know, the South was segregated, and there were sometimes, like, riots over,

would there be, like, integrated swimming pools.

And he made a small but important symbolic gesture of one day, you know, sort of like,

who says it's a hot day.

I'd like to sort of like, the cool off my feet and he takes a waiting pool up to the front yard of his television home.

And, uh, officer, Climbing through fairings, as we should like, to cool down with me.

And they just sit there, you know, sort of like a black man and a white man,

being friends, like, dating together, like, moved to their street in the same pool.

And, you know, he doesn't tell the kids, this is why I'm doing it.

But it's important visual symbol of, you know, like this happens. This is the world.

That's Gavin Edwards, who's penned a lot of great stuff, including guplab books about Miss Herd Song lyrics,

called he's got the whole world in his pants.

I highly recommend it, but I digress.

It's kids shows this time on the theme machine. I'm John Carney.

And we haven't even gotten into the animated stuff yet. So, let's fix that now.

Some children's programming is only around for a couple of years. Some of them, like Arthur on PBS,

has survived several childhoods. In fact, Arthur first showed up as a book in 1976,

and remains a staple on TV today. It's creator Mark Brown has been drawing those characters

for more than a quarter of a century. The 25th season of the show is giving underway on PBS.

How do you keep drawing the same thing to keep an interesting in your own head?

You know, Arthur is this little world that reflects real life. And there's nothing more interesting

than real life. You know, kids will ask me, "Where do you get all your ideas?" And that's an easy answer

for me because I just keep my eyes open to my ears open. And every day, if you look hard enough,

you'll find a story. And then you get to have a little fun with it. And that's my job. Kids are my boss.

And I love my job, and I don't want to lose it. So, Arthur is an artvark who apparently has had

extensive rhinoplasty. Not unlike Michael Jackson. This started with a book, Arthur's nose,

back in '76. And in that book, he had an artworks nose. What point and what was the decision to say,

you know, it's less ink to draw him without a big star. I guess drawing him all of these years,

I wasn't a conscious decision to make his nose shorter. It just happened. I think the more I

drew him, the more I knew this character, the more lovable he became, the more human he became, which is a little

scary. But it was not a conscious effort. It's just an evolution, a natural evolution. I never thought

I'd great. More than one story or one book about this character. Wow. The theme song recorded by Ziggy Marley.

How did that come together? We wanted Ziggy Marley so badly to sing the theme song. And it

I think it was over six months of just pummeling the poor guy and his agents and his soul with requests

to do the theme song because you know, PPS we don't have big budget. So we have to grow a lot. And

finally he relented and oh my gosh, one of the nicest things is to enter an elementary school to speak to kids

and to have my day start with them singing the theme song. I think that much better than that.

So how did he become your first choice? We followed Barney and that theme song, I don't know as a

parent I wasn't crazy about it. And we wanted something uplifting. We wanted the theme song to project

what is our agenda was with Arthur and so we'll even yourself is what happens with that.

That's Arthur creator Mark Brown not only to animate it shows have to be drawn. Somebody needs to give them a voice

in a bit the man behind SpongeBob but first another modern day Mel Blank. Billy West talked about

keeping that whole bed of voices from getting all mixed up. How do you keep them straight in your head? How do you

remember that guy from Futurama that I did or that was my run in Stimpy character? I don't know if each

character has a certain musicality to it. If you remember the melody of different characters then the voice

just falls into place. You know like Pride was on a filming. It's like film the shape Pride reporting

for duty. And then there was young lady you need another graph why not Pride work? Oh you're every

one if that's new. Just inform them man I've made it with a woman. Yeah. It's no surprise that the

voice artist such as yourself all draw upon Mel Blank as one of their big influences and you were doing

her a lot of those characters early on. That was doing an impersonation of a character that are existed.

Was that easier than creating something new or is it more difficult? There's a little more pressure because

you know here you are. They're asking you to step in the shoes of somebody like Mel Blank which you know

we can all do the best we can but Mel Blank just did it all. He did every one of those characters except

for Elmo's foot but I got to do at least I got to do both of them on space. You know and I got the

whitewood Michael Jordan and two dock the closest thing to a religious figure that we have.

There's commercial work too that we would know you from as one of the M&M's on that and you were the

hunting at Cheerio B for a while. When you're doing a commercial voice where you've got 30 seconds to make

it happen and establish that in a viewer's mind. Is that harder than having 30 minutes to flush somebody

out only using your voice? It's always better if you get to do like a stable character what I mean by

that is that it's the same character each time so you don't have to keep dreaming up something new. When you're

doing voices for a cartoon they call on you to do all different kinds of things so you got to think you go to

stop and go what will work forever like long after I'm gone. I hope it'll you know so

ring true to people. That's Billy West and we serve one up for the children this time as we examine

kids' shows. We've had some live kids' show hosts and some of the people involved in animated

programming now under the puppets. It's hardly fair to call the puppets puppets but it's better than

extremely well decorated socks I thought. The juggernaut that is the puppets were the creation of

Jim Henson. A puppeteer, a filmmaker, an artist and a visionary not only did Henson create these characters

but often voiced many of them as well. I'd be enough I had a chance to visit with several of those

characters but more on that in a moment. First daughter Cheryl Henson shares dad's vision including

where the name came from. Is the term "muppet" something he came up with? Yes it is. It's worth

it he came up with to call his company 50 years ago when he first started his company when he was only

about 18, 19 years old and it's something that is a combination of the word puppet and the word marionette,

which is a European string puppet but it's also worth it he thought was very funny and fun and so that's

why he chose it. You could make the coolest puppet in the world but it would never catch on if it didn't

have the layers of character and personality that so many of the muppets have. Talk about how that

part of it comes about. Well I believe that a lot of good characters, good puppet characters comes from

inside the personalities of the performer that you can have a beautiful looking character but you need to

have the personality comes out of a deeper place within that puppeteer. In many ways the many different

characters my father did all came from different aspects of his personality just as the different

characters that Frank Oz or Dave Gold who performed the great performance the great Gons. So they were all

aspects of their personalities and then the writers get to know those personalities they get to

and so there are many long-term collaborators that had gotten to know these characters because it takes

many different people to make this character real. You have to have the puppet builder, the performer,

the writer as well as the producers who really understand how to put these pieces of puzzle together to create

the illusion of a living being. Let's talk Carmen for a minute. I mean he's up there with Frank's

and I try to tell this pressly and he's made of felt that's pretty amazing as an accomplishment.

Did you or anybody else in the business get a sense when you developed a character this is really

going to fly. This is going to be somebody that's America and the world can relate to or was it you never really

know? I don't think you ever really know for sure what's going to take take off and what's not.

The encirmer was developed for many years. We're celebrating the 50th anniversary of Kermit and so it took

a number of years my father exploring his personality, putting a lot of his own personality into Kermit.

Before Kermit was on the Sesame Street and then from Sesame Street Kermit went on to be on the

Muppet Show then from that on to films and other things and so I think it takes a while for the character

to really develop. I don't think there's any real way of knowing what's really going to take.

You know with Sesame Street work and Muppet work a lot of celebrities have lent their talents either

as the voice of one of the characters are actually being live action alongside some of these

Muppets. There are certainly some fabulous stars on the Muppet Show. Ray Charles saying it's not easy being

green to the beautiful rendition of that. Candice Bergen was a guest on the star as well as Edgar Bergen,

her father of fabulous puppeteer and a mentor to my father. Harry Bell fontake. There are just so many

people who really enjoyed performing with the puppets and enjoyed performing with the Muppets and

became friends of my father. It's really wonderful to see the stars sometimes as they make that transformation

to really accept things. The puppet character as a compadry is a fellow actor on the stage.

Meaning so much to us to work that was put out with the Muppets and with Sesame Street,

I'd be hard pressed to name five puppetry projects that captured the world's imagination like that.

Why do you think that is? The Muppets were the first puppets to be designed

specially for the television screen. The design of the eyes, the focus of the eyes, the lip sync of

the mouth, the way that they were performed to the television screen made it much easier to really connect with the

audience. Drawback to blinds and show me the man behind the curtain. Tell me something that went on

in the production of something like this that we would be really surprised to know. You know when a

Kermit de Frog is singing rainbow connection sitting on a log in the middle of a lake in a swamp at the

opening of the first Muppet movie, my father actually was in a tank, a metal gas tank, sunk into that pond,

live performing that puppet through a little hole in the top of the tank through the log up into

Kermit and he had to stay in that little tank for hours and hours at a time with oxygen being pumped in in

he had to wear a wet suit. The things we do to stay in show business. That was the late Jim Henson's

daughter Cheryl upon the release of a book about her dad called "It's not easy being green and other

things to consider." I'm John Carney and this is the theme machine in researching the topic. I'd

forgotten just how many of the Muppets had actually popped into the studio over the years. We actually have

Grover on the show. What is it that you did, John? I know what he really knows for sure. I talk into this

microphone and just sees what happens. Well, you're doing a very good job. You don't pretend you're

like, "I'm so worth your life." Okay, you can do this. Well, let's talk about this. When you

I talk to the kids, I mean, do you handle that differently than when you talk to some of your

buddies like Oscar or whoever? Well, talking to jokes and I mean, I, I myself, it makes really

nicer. I understand what it's like to be a child. And so, you know, I did not have to them really,

and differently. You know, I just, I treat them with kindness. I try to listen and hear what they have to

say. And the thing has some big feelings that they want to talk about is really, really not to hear about that.

And I want to give some love to Grover and his literary efforts and the name is aluding me, but

the don't turn the page because there's a monster in the book. One of my faves. Yes. I can't do it.

I'm with you. I imagine this piggy, come on, come clean. What's what's the deal with your relationship?

Well, I, I guess I can tell you. I, I've been in Malph, with my feet, and we've been up for a very,

very long time, I'm like three years since an op-and-show, and she's in a pig. And I respect that. And we're still

setters. And I think she's wonderful and, and we will still continue to stay together. And now that I've read,

I mean said that I, I would probably be able to pay to go spend the holiday to Twitter. Just as long as she continues to eat frog legs and you like bacon.

Well, I'm wishing that's what it's, and one thing that I'll say around thinking is to be worth. Yeah, I would guess that would be an issue.

I'm sure if it's not your turn. Yeah. You're immortalized 2002 with the star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. And all the stars

to come before you, all the stars to follow, you're the first and only amphibian to receive that award. What does that mean to you?

Well, but, you mean, you know, not everything you can install on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, the closest to mean like me,

well, and that's not that close. Well, you know, it's an interesting thing. I mean, a lot of people don't know this. When you get that star, it's your responsibility to maintain that star.

So, you know, you are funny in the morning. You might see me down there with a rocker daddy Jr. and, and, you know, people like that. And I'll carry cars and thank you for any other. That's what can do.

All you would. Lots of movies we have enjoyed over the years and it looks like that shows no sign of stopping. I'm up at most wanted.

A lot of big, select cameos and this this looks like a really fun movie. Well, I think it is. And I was, I really enjoyed the one we did with Jason and Seedil, a couple of years ago.

Call them up. But there is, there is so many, I like this one even better. It is a paper. It's a silly funny movie. We have Tina Fey and I'm a real and re-teacher based. And it's, I think it's going to be a lot of fun. It's about this character in Constantine.

And the world's more dangerous criminal, dangerous fog than he replaced me with him up at the center of me often spend time in a Russian gold. Which doesn't sound like much fun.

It would not be fun except that I got to do all the scenes in a gold, with Tina Fey and the place they were working of the prison. So, that's not right. Especially in the strip search. But again, Miss Piggy's going to get on your back about that.

I'm working with anybody. Well, female fog big, big, big, and a admirer. It's not going to be a fact.

So, any chance you guys marrying, making it official? Well, I'm, I'm a, I mean, I like to say that I am a, a bullet form. I am not afraid of commitment. I'm just a little just not sure I'm throw it up marrying. So, I will, you know, I, I like to keep my options open. But at the moment, you know, I are together all the way. Spending all of these separate.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I guess I can get you a sculp on that. I'm back in the swap. I'm going to be here with my family.

Can you repeat it? It's a come to the swap. Something about what in the eye heals and people don't swim very well.

So, Clement, how do you get a custom to performing being out in public and all the while somebody's hand is up your toughest?

Yeah, I can't. I can't. And I question that's one of the, I'm not the both answer. Is that two personal?

Yeah, I'm afraid of it. Did I bring it? I didn't mean to cross the line. I apologize.

That's okay.

2000, I'm sure I wouldn't want to answer that question either. How are you?

Me? Great. Only piggy on the line right now.

Yeah, yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, I am going wonderful. And I'm so excited about this week's episode of not such as Junior's.

I don't ever remember seeing in any of the Muppet films or TV appearances of you actually cooking anything.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's because I don't usually cook. I am other people who do that film.

I didn't even know what a kitchen was. Yeah, I just thought it would be way easier past through other way to the bridge.

If you ever had slog legs or would that be too weird?

That's the one weird. Okay. All right. Well, I'll just, I'll just keep going then.

What did you make? Give us a preview. I don't imagine pork belly is or anything like that. We're on the menu.

No, no.

It was fake. That's a French or fake and French fries and French fries. I don't understand. I thought I'm in it.

If it's French, why don't you call it French fries? I don't get it.

I was looking at some of the other shows outside of the Muppet franchise where you have popped up.

And you've done a mall. Today's show that tonight show. And there was one that I saw that I thought I don't remember this.

this but it goes back to 2011 where you were on WWE Raw the wrestling show.

"Oh yeah, you're new, you're not forget, like though, it's all my God. You're this?"

"Oh, those little men, they are Godlike. I'm like God there, the vines. They're a little men out there.

They're all you have to watch that. Okay? Yeah. What they, what they, they're smogging their, they're getting their hands.

Oh, you, but those, they're, they're, they're true to them.

Speaking of gentlemen and I'm almost reluctant to go into it because it's been such a volatile relationship with you over the years.

Let's, let's talk about Kermit, where we're to think Stan with Kermit right now.

"I don't know you all have to ask him." Oh, I don't know where he's standing. We're sitting there lying down.

"So it doesn't sound like you and Kermit are going to be on an arm on the red carpet anytime soon."

No, no, no, no, we don't have a movie or anything coming up.

But I...

No, if we did, we...

No, no, no, no, no, no.

What the...

It's a light.

I...

I was very happy.

Last year in the year before we saw you in an advertising campaign,

and you were doing commercials for post-ashios.

Yes!

The nuts.

Right?

The white...

I don't like post-ashios.

I've never seen that happen before.

The white-cut.

It's a good part of your camera.

What do you know?

What do you know?

What do you know?

It's a little bit...

It's a little bit...

It's a little bit...

You know, you could probably wind up in the hot dogs.

And what kind of endorsement deal would you like?

Just to give somebody's listening, you happens to be involved with that product.

Think, great.

And I really know how to meet them.

The sacred...

You know, blood is out there with me.

Send me some sacred on your woman.

Thank you, Grover.

Cermit, Peggy.

Still waiting on a few mubbits to pop in.

It's the theme machine, and we look at kids' shows this time.

I'm John Carney.

Some of you may remember a series of shows in the late '60s, and in the early '70s, that felt...

Well, different than anything else being served up to children at that point, or adults for that matter.

Ever sides live action, shaggy dogs, driving, dune buddies, monsters from the sea, hanging out with

human kids and HR puff and stuff, which, if my research was a dragon that felt misunderstood.

These were all the creation of brothers, Sid and Marty Croft.

I'm not sure how well it did with the little kids, but the hippies and the older kids seemed

to enjoy it.

It did beg some questions.

I think that's a great craft.

With HR puff and stuff and segment in the sea monsters, there have been under currents of conversations.

Well, this is like crazy, dragon-do stuff.

You watch the show.

It's like, where do these ideals come from?

Yeah, I could see maybe they smoked a little something, something.

You want to put that one to rest for us?

Absolutely.

Well, first of all, if we did as many drugs as everybody thought we did, we'd be dead today.

You cannot produce these shows and create them stones.

It's a kid's watching in high school and in college.

I don't know what they were doing.

The Beatles, at that time, and puffed and stuff, they used to ask for the tapes to see the tapes

and ones.

The Beatles were rich with what they were fans.

And I was looking at some pictures side by side of some of the creations of you and your brother

said in statement in the sea monsters and banana splits and HR puff and stuff.

There were some similarities to some mascots of commercial entities.

Case in point mayer make cheese and McDonald's and some others.

Did you ever sense that they were ripping off?

I had more than a sense.

Against all my lawyers, you know, recommendation and Beverly Hills, stay away from them.

You'll get killed if you do something legally.

So we did suit them with the McDonald's land and it took 13 years to beat them, but we beat them.

In fact, they had to take all the merchandise in your apartment on the land.

I followed Walt Disney's suggested.

He sat with me at the pole lounge at the Beverly Hills Hotel long time ago.

Came over to the table and had been at the Judy Garland opening in Vegas and he said, "Hey,

whatever you do, never sell anything you create."

And I always liked to see a name above the title.

The only thing he didn't tell me was how to save my money.

You guys for a time, short as it was, had an amusement park based on some of these characters.

And it only lasted a year.

We were at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people.

But it was a one-of-a-kind place.

We created a pinball ride.

It's four people get into a ball and got hit through a pinball machine.

So that had a crystal carousel. We had it designed by 15 to the end of the night.

We were in a bad place in the land or at the time.

Down time was not safe. We never had the backing of the city.

The biggest problem is when something fails it goes away.

Because the building and the escalator went up nine stores with salt to CNN.

So every day I can take a look at my park.

It's Marty Croft and the brothers went on to do all types of different television programming.

Most notably after the kid stuff, the Donnie and Marie Show in the late 1970s.

It's kid shows on the theme machine.

And we're getting down to it this week.

And not just kid shows, but films as well.

And it was 1988 that brought us to film with a character that kids fell in love with.

The character was Roger Rabbit, the movie who framed Roger Rabbit.

It was produced by Steven Spielberg and also that year, it won three Academy Awards.

It's lead character was voiced by Charles Flescher.

Earlier Billy West talked about how Mel Blank was his idol.

While Charles had a different influence entirely.

Lending your voice to animated characters certainly something you know stranger to, hitting international

fame as the voice of Roger Rabbit.

Would you remember the first character you had developed?

The first characters I used to do were kind of based on Jonathan Winner's characters.

He was an inspiration to the mod Fricker to those.

Exactly.

Most of the first characters were deruities of him and then I started to explore more of what I consider to be me.

How did the rabbit think him along?

The director of the movie Babasimetka saw me do my stand-up act at a comedy club eight years later.

He brought me in to do the voice of Roger.

So wasn't even an audition for this thing?

Not for the rabbit.

Just came in to the rabbit that they say, "Well, we wanted to sound six feet red-haired with freckles."

There were parameters as they're always with creating voices for characters.

And first of all, you're limited to what the character looks like.

So the character is, for instance, Virgil, who's short little German scientist, or short little scientist,

his voice couldn't be too deep because he's very small, same with Roger.

So the actual physical size of the character will begin to dictate the general area of the voice,

whether it just be higher or lower.

And then there's other aspects of personality and soul that you infuse into the character.

I would think it would be tough for you now, and I'm sure Roger Rabbit was very good to you.

But now you can't go anywhere and somebody wants to do the rabbit thing.

And we just get a little observing.

It doesn't bother me.

Well, good. We do the rabbit thing.

I'm sitting here hating when people ask me.

Please, come call me, flat, it's like a, no, I'm not listening.

You know, doing the voices, how rough is that?

It's unlike that, it's made of water, molland, you know, take donkey carcasses out of a cave.

And there's no interesting reference.

We're not doing voices, Charles works on difficult mathematical equations.

I'm not kidding. He even did a TED talk.

I didn't understand any of that.

Okay, wrap it up one of my faves, Spunge Bob Squarepads,

who when he came out with a Christmas record,

was more than happy to come promoted and bring Don Kenny with him.

So Spunge Bob explained this to me with all of your characters that live under the sea.

Are they a little worried that maybe Spunge Bob is breaking out and maybe leave in the show?

No, because they would make them church.

Everyone down here is very secure.

And, you know, they're in my band.

Your omniscient crab plays bass, Patrick plays drums, good words on clarinet, and Sandy's on guitar.

So I'm, it's all inclusive.

I'm worried that this might do something to your career.

I mean, you've managed to maintain a certain level of modesty and just be a good old Spunge's living at the bottom of the sea.

But what happens to you if you become a rock star?

Well, I'm hoping that the rock star job will not interfere with my real career,

which is being a fly to get the crusty crab.

Yeah, that is a good gig. Pretty steady work.

The ability, you got, you know, the rock star thing is just trying to sky.

But hey, if people want to go on iTunes and download, don't be a jerk.

It's Christmas, right? I mean, I'm saying, I won't complain.

And it's the only song in the jute box in the crusty crab.

But it's the only one. There's 200 buttons and they all play.

Don't be a jerk. It's Christmas. It's my own personal jute box.

Going to iTunes and buying it that way, don't be a jerk. It's Christmas.

Yes, and it's also on the Spunge Bob's day to hit CD as a bonus job.

Now, where is that? Is that fresh out on the shelves?

That is, yeah, that is actually a very recent release.

SpongeBob's greatest hits on Nick Records distributed by Sony BMP.

Now, how do you know all of this is going on when you live with the bottom of the ocean?

You may have agents telling you that they're distributing the records.

They're taking care of everything. But up here, topside, how do you know?

Well, I actually have Patrick is my agent. So he keeps track of all my business doing. He's a pretty smart guy.

And it works up pretty well, again.

Yeah, yeah, Patrick is very intelligent.

Well, good. If this goes really well, and you make a lot of money, what are you going to do with the cash?

I am going to buy crabby patties for each and every one of my friends and clean you.

Well, that would be nice.

You are going to have a crabby patty, handle it. Do the Johnny show.

They look. They look cool.

I mean, that the patty's on. See me, not you.

Are you on a scene? You're on a scene, John. Come on.

Can I just have a bottle of jack with that BRI?

I think that's good. That's what we call a happy meal down here.

What are you going to do for Christmas down there under the sea?

Well, I'm going to do. I'm just going to sit in front of the fire and decorate my coral tree.

The coral. And then what do you decorate with?

I hang little little decorations on it. I have a little sponge spot decorations.

I buy my own merchandise. Like cannibalism.

Well, sorry. Were you sponge? Can I talk to Tom Canis?

Yeah.

You threw me for a loop with that last one, John. I couldn't think of anything.

It's early here.

That's alright. It's early in LA, John. It's early here too.

So as a comedian, as an actor, and you get the voice work and different things come along.

Do you remember the first time that you did sponge Bob and I'm dying to know what you thought.

Okay. Now I'm a sponge in the ocean. I should have gone to law school.

Well, you know, the funny thing is that the sponge Bob voice started out is a really minor minor voice.

I get a crowd scene on an earlier cartoon. I was on called Rock O'S Modern Life.

It was a Nickelodeon cartoon. But the creative director, not the creator, but the creative director of that cartoon,

was a guy named Steve Hillenberg who then went on to create a sponge Bob years later.

And he remembered this incidental under the radar voice that I had done in this crowd scene.

They called it Wala in the business.

And he said, "Listen, you know, in the background, that guy's Barry, that's squeaky little voice. That's my sponge Bob."

What was your first thought of him? After you did it. Did you think it had a potential for any legs?

Because the premise--

I thought it had potential to be like a funny seven-minute short.

And then hopefully maybe be a pilot. And then maybe be a show that's on for a couple of seasons if you're really, really, really lucky.

You know, other than the T-shirts and the plushes and the things that make sense.

And of course, some of the best sponge Bob merchandise is the sponge Bob's greatest hits and the don't be a jerk.

It's Christmas.

There's a don't be a jerk. It's Christmas. That is my favorite piece of sponge Bob merchandise right now.

I told him, "Sponge, give time to the phone back, please."

"Makes..."

That's what happens. This is like multiple personality disorder that you can actually make a living with.

What have you seen that did stand out as, "Okay, we've crossed the point of everything you could possibly think of?"

Well, for me, I mean, I see stuff all the time. I go, "Wow."

When a show was first starting to get big and you were first starting to see the merchandise, I think when I saw the first time I saw a sponge Bob, a nipple piercing ring.

I said, "Boy, this show is really arrived."

So do you still wear it?

I bought it, even though I have no piercings whatsoever. I'm like, "I have to buy this."

It just hits an adroor on my house, just because it's so weird.

Tom Kenny appreciate the time and sponge Bob, are you still there?

I'm Sponge Bob, I'm still here too.

Have a great holiday. Good luck with the CD sales.

Thanks, John. Don't be a jerk. It's Christmas.

Yes, dear. I'll talk to you. I'm a Jew, by the way. But thanks, anyway.

Awesome. Don't be a huff. It's a panic.

You got a little schmutz on your sponge.

At-stop Kenny, hintspunch Bob, on the theme machine and that's our look at kids' shows.

Only two episodes left this season to get caught up.

To be here for our next installment as well.

Fifty years of Saturday Night Live.

I'm John Carney. To be sure to subscribe to the theme machine, wherever you get your podcasts or at the theme machine.

Vfemmachine.net.

Production assistance from Everett Marshall Creative.

He's an adult. I'm John Carney. Thanks for listening.

And be good to each other.

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